Battle of the blogs!

When i left for work a few hours ago i said i might add more later, so on one hand i'm not surprised to be back here. However, thanks to alan's comment on my post, i'm now about to veer violently away from what i originally intended to write, and become involved in what can only be described as a battle of the blogs! for those of you who are caught in the cross-fire, all i can do is apologise and explain that i havent seen him to debate any thing for the last ten days, so we're getting a little competitive. Red means an alan comment;

I don't believe that God would put the fate of a person (or any matter which we would pray about) into the hands of humans
I agree with that, of course God doesnt rely on us to get our prayers right for people to live or die, or for wars to cease or anything else you can think of. He doesnt need us at all, He only chooses to let us be involved in His plan. This is was mentioned at our church on sunday, when Stan commented on the feeding of the five thousand. He said people always get hung up on the fact that Jesus fed so many people with the very little that the boy gave him - but what we should be excited about is the fact that he could have done it without anything it all. However.....

I don't think anything happens because we prayed XYZ amount for it, but only that Almighty God saw fit to bless a certain situation.
I agree that it is always because of God's blessing and grace that any prayer is answered. But i disagree that "nothing happens because we prayed XYZ amount for it". Of course Im not arguing that if we pray a set number of prayers God will sigh and go "ok then, have it your way" - that would be both crass and ridiculous, making God out to be some kind of machine. But i do believe that things CAN happen "because we prayed XYZ amount for it". In short, I believe our prayers can change the heart of God - and oh no, i've just had a horrible premonition that we're going to get into predestination and the will of God and that excruciating bucket of fish - i can see what tomorrow's post will be on! i think i should stop trying to write interesting and provoking posts and just concentrate on informing you all what i had for tea! But to carry on while i still can - there is plenty of evidence in the bible that our prayers can change God's heart. We are not only told "God honors persistence in prayer" in Matthew 7, and that "the earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and wonderful results" in james 5, but actually given examples of where this happened; in Genesis 18, when Abraham interceded over and over again for Sodom, it says that God didn't destroy the city as He had said He would, and in Exodus 32 it's written that because of Moses praying for Israel, "the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened". So don't tell me that our prayers can't move the heart of God! Yes, it's God's grace and blessing, we cant earn it or force His hand, but i believe that when we persistently come to Him and say "Lord, you are the only one who can change this, we trust you, we love you, we want to see you glorified, please don't let this happen", God will sometimes choose to move because of that.

I believe God can and will heal a person of cancer. I believe it is right to pray for that person to be healed of cancer. I don't think the two are linked though.
I guess you're saying the reason it is "right" to pray about such things is not so we will get the answer we want, but so we will be drawn closer to God, and therefore begin to see HIS will and not our own for the situation? of course i agree that that is a major part of prayer - that more often than not it IS us and not the situation that is changed when we pray, and it is in that way that God does answer - ie, He uses our prayers to bring us to Himself, to know Him more, so that we will gain strength in Him and be able to face the "no" that sometimes comes. BUT - like i've said, i believe that our prayers CAN bring about changes that are beyond just growth in us - believing that that is all prayer "does" is not enough for me (sorry to sound so grasping there, i hope you get me). There are millions of examples in the new testament where people prayed and God moved, what about paul - he prayed over and over for the young churches in a way that shows he obviously expected more than just his own heart to be changed (colossians 1: "since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all spiritual wisdom and understanding"). If it wasnt possible that our prayers could move God to answer, surely we could just praise and worship, because that would bring us closer to God in the way you seem to be saying asking Him for help does, and then we could just quit with the asking.

God must be given all glory in our prayers, and we must never fall into the trap of thinking that because we utter a few words of prayer that we possess God's power to heal
the fact that the glory isnt ours if someone we prayed for gets healed doesnt invalidate the idea that our prayers can touch God's heart (like we saw they did with moses and abraham). Of course the glory is God's! but i dont think that means we have to go around saying "our prayers have no power, they dont have any effect in the heavens". I think it is possible to aknowledge that by prayer we can move God to act without detracting any glory from Him. I do not claim that my prayers can manipulate God, or that i can control Him, but i can praise Him that when i cry to Him, his love, mercy and compassion can be stirred, and He can move to answer me - surely that gives even MORE glory to God, because it recognises him as more than a cold and immoveable deity? If anyone worries that by saying prayers can move God they make Him look weaker, well look at the whole of the message of Christ - he became weak and human and died that we could be reconciled God. The message of our God is not that He is untouchable.

However! having said all that, i want to finish by saying this. As much as i believe that our prayers can move God's heart and that He can act because of it, i do not believe that His compassion for us ever overrides His purpose or His justice. God's love can have a broader, deeper, longer work to do than we can always see when we pray, and sometimes what we pray for simply cannot find a place within that work. That is why we have to pray "thy will be done", as jesus did in the garden.

So to end; this morning i asked the question, "how do we pray "thy will be done" but also totally believe that the prayer will be answered?", which is what promtped all of this. I can now say that i dont think praying "thy will be done" means i need to have any less faith in God to answer my prayer. It just means that whatever happens with that specific prayer - whether i get the answer i want or not - i am putting my faith in who it belongs.